Chris M says:

Oh, come now Andrew, you know you like the attention :)

While I am a devoted Mac user, I will NOT deride you for your opinion. As you said in another post,” I like orange. You like blue. Tell me how wrong I am all you want; I still prefer orange.” And that is fine with me.

I think the point you are missing with the iPod, and why folks like myself deem it “the best”, is the entire experience. From the iPod, to iTunes, to the iTunes music library it is a completely seamless and pleasant experience. Everythng works right out of the box, be it the Mac or PC version.

For the majority of the world that is not tech savy, has absolutley no clue what ogg vorbis is, and just wants to download and play their music as simply as possible, the iPod/iTunes is the ONLY platform that accomplishes that. And it is the only “system” that is cross platform (Mac and PC - linux does not count here becuase we are talking about normal, common people). Napster, Yahoo, Amazon,et al do not support Macintosh in any way because they all use Microsoft’s PROPRIETARY format - WMV. (I truly wish someone would come up with DRM’s for MP3’s that make them the default standard - then Mac and PC users would have nothing to argue about :)

Ipod/iTunes personifies one of the golden rules of business - KISS (keep it simple stupid). The iPod is incredibly simplistic. It looks great. It has the main features you need. (I never understood the appeal of an FM tuner. I use my iPod specfically so I don’t have to listen to crappy FM radio anymore). It is easy to navigate. It sounds great. It attaches easily to your computer. It is extremely easy to transfer songs.

Most people that use PC’s know of the inherent difficulties that can arise when installing something. In fact, most typical users are deathly afraid of installing anything on their PC’s. But they ae not afraid of iTunes because they know of Apple’s “ease of use” reputation. People TRUST Apple. They do not trust Microsoft.

One last thing - a comparison experience. I have a good friend who is as tech savy as they come. And he is a gadget freak. He is a PC devotee and has had a Zen Xtra for quite awhile. So, last Xmas he decides it is time to get a digital music player for his girlfriend. He buys a Zen Micro. He decides he is going to get it all setup for her so that on Xmas morning she can start using it right away. Well, after 2 days of trying to load songs and having nothing but problems (PC won’t recognize device, repeated song transfer fails, download patches, experience same problems, put on another PC, experience same problems, etc.) he is about ready to go balistic so I said to him ” Dude, send it back and get an iPod Mini. You won’t have any of these problems. Plus, it will be easy for her to use.” Of course his reply was typical - “F Apple.” So the next day I take him over to the Apple store in Tyson’s Corner. He goes and demos a Mini. He is totally blown away. He says to me “OMFG - now I understand why people are so hyped on this thing”. He buys a pink Mini and calls me later that night to tell me that everything worked perfect and how he just couldn’t believe how simple it was. (remember - this is an experienced Zen/Jukebox user). The next day I come to work and he tells me that he just put his Zen on Ebay and purchased a 40 gig iPhoto. Fast forward 9 months - to this day, whenever I see him, he always says the same thing - “I love my iPod!”.

Take care,
Chris

Andrew says:

I’m not missing any point. The column, in case you haven’t read it, was not a review of the iPod, although the Mac users seem to be treating it as such.

It was a comment on how high-quality products like the iPod make a big difference — that features are not always as important as form and function.

It would be nice if the Mac users understood this, but, as usual, they can only see the negative and are now critquing my column as if it was a review. As I said, it obviously wasn’t.

Gerald says:

The only problem I see with Kantors article is that Kantor fails to recognize the biggest difference between the players. And that is iTunes. It’s the combination between the iPod and iTunes that makes it such an overwhelming favorite. The fact that he fails to mention this obvious and crucial aspect is what makes me think that either a) Kantor never really used and tested the iPod, or b) he just simply missed a big part of the story. I personally own an iPod, but my neice got a Zen, and when I had to help her get music on the thing, I could not believe how complex the process was. And that is why Apple has such devoted fans, I suppose. They get the details right, they get those things that just make life truly easier. When you are so used to technology being complicated, hard to figure out and frustrating, it really is refreshing to see a company getting it right. If that inspires fanatical loyalty, well good for Apple then. They deserve it.

Andy H. says:

Mr. Kantor,

MacDailyNews very clearly pointed thier issues with your piece. MDN takes issue with your unqualified statements with no supporting evidence or examples.
• “At least until recently — the iPod’s controls felt better that the competition’s.”
• “The competition has caught up, and there are some just-as-slick players out there.”
• “Get a Creative Labs MuVo or Zen, or a Sony Network Walkman and you can do the same things.”

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/6930/

Perhaps you’d like to take this opportunity to explain your comments?

MDN also clearly told their readers: “[Kantor] tends to cherrypick the flames, so level-headed expressions pointing out issues would be best, unless you want to be published on kantor.com.”

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/6928/

Chris M says:

Mr, Kantor,

May I suggest that in the future it may be wise just to ignore the iPod and anything Mac related at all. Most Mac users could be compared to extreme Left Wing liberals - they are fantic and do not think rationally and only want to spew hate. MDN could also be compared to a Liberal blog. Be that as it may, you are being extremely disrespectful to a lot of people by calling us lemmings. I am a MDN reader, a devoted Mac user, and my post was nothing but respectful to you.

I understood exactly what you article was about. I did read the whole thing. My original post was a broader post, expounding on other articles you have written, trying to explain why the iPod dominates the market since you were so surprised by that fact in one of your earlier columns.

But to answer why most Mac users see nothing but the negative - you try being in the minority and having your chosen platform belittled by every “tech” writer out there. Almost to a man (or woman), if they are not writing for a Mac based publication, they tend to write off Apple as being nothing but an annoying little company that makes quaint little products that don’t deserve any respect or legitimate place in the computing world. I am not saying that you are of this ilk (although there is a lot of condecension in some of your past articles towards the Mac platform), but the constant Apple bashing gets old after a while. And, frankly, it pisses some people off.

Take care,
Chris

Andrew says:

You’re kidding, right? “You try being in the minority and having your chosen platform belittled by every ‘tech’ writer out there.”

Hypocrisy runs rampant.

I should ‘do more research,’ yet it’s OK to make a claim like that. Every tech writer, huh? Last I saw, the Mac got lots of great reviews, including from the likes of PC Magazine and PC World. So where’s the data to back up that claim?

I particularly like this bit of logic: The iPod must be the mostest wonderfulest thing out there — its huge market share is proof of that!

Following that line of thought, Windows, with its 95+ percent market share, is obviously the best operating system out there.

Microsoft uses icons, it’s stealing from Apple. Apple debuts a two-button mouse, and it’s innovating.

PC users are “lemmings” for all using Windows. But Mac users are ’speaking their mind’ when they all stomp their feet in unison when the yokels at MDN nitpick a column.

[roll of eyes]

Read the @$%#&* column. I had nothing but good things to say about the iPod. Nothing but. But so many of you folks just get caught up in the whole martyrdom thing that you miss that.

And as far as whatever bad press the Mac gets, think about it. Look at the response I get for a *positive* column. Then realize that *every* tech writer gets this crap from Mac users. Then maybe it will dawn on you why the Mac gets less and less coverage.

When last I mentioned an Apple product, I got the same nonsense. I decided not to write about Apple again — it wasn’t worth it. I broke that pledge because I had a positive thing to say about the iPod.

Now I see it was the right choice. The other writers I know were right: It’s just not worth writing about Apple products.

Andy H. says:

Mr. Kantor?

All I hear is crickets in response to my post. I wonder why?

Andy H. says:

Mr. Kantor?

All I hear are crickets in response to my post. I wonder why?

Ted Wood says:

Let me summarize:

“So Apple released the new iPod — the iPod nano — at the same time it introduced the Motorola ROKR phone, which has a built-in iPod.”

The ROKR doesn’t have a built-in iPod, it has iTunes built-in (sort of) — loss of credibility.

“Apple has over 30% of the MP3 player market when you look at hard-drive-based players and flash-memory-based players.”

Over 30%? It’s much higher. — loss of credibility.

“And yet Apple has that huge market share.”

The lasting assumption here is that you don’t understand why Apple has [or deserves] that huge market share. — loss of credibility.

“Some of it may be due to good marketing, but much of it is due to the quality of the iPod.”

Good catch.

“I wouldn’t call it “art,” but it is certainly something you could spend time admiring as you use it.”

The passion that goes into it makes it art. — loss of credibility.

“The competition has caught up, and there are some just-as-slick players out there.”

Oh really? As many have said, back this up with facts, not empty claims. — loss of credibility.

“Until recently, nothing could compare to the iPod’s controls.”

Until recently? Another unsupported claim. — loss of credibility.

“But — at least until recently — the iPod’s controls felt better that the competition’s.”

Deja vu? What compares? — loss of credibility.

“If all you’ve known is one way (average controls, mushy keys), you don’t miss something better.”

BINGO!!! This is why Mac users are different. They’ve experienced the greener side of the fence, and they really do want more people to experience how technology can be, and is for them. Enjoyable. Your wife’s statement made the most sense in that entire article. I know it wasn’t specifically about iPod, Macs, or Apple. It was about how technology can “be” and experienced. But by using a subject that Mac “lemmings” are fanatical about and making unsupported claims, playing down figures (30%), and giving the overall impression that Apple and the iPod are only slightly better than the competition is asking for a response. Apple hasn’t and doesn’t continue to have their tremendous success for being “just another company”. They are pioneers in the minds and mills of our world. Ask yourself again why we’re fanatical about a company that stands for something and is making a difference?

Max says:

Since when being an iPod user equates with being a Mac user. To latest count there are more iPod owners on Windows than on Mac.

The iPod does not imply you are on a Mac. Competitors to the iPod are at best mediocre compared to it.

Cheers

Dmitry says:

Andrew:

Yes, your column was not specifically on the iPod itself, but you know just as well as the rest of us that if you DO make statements about something in the column, you should be held accountable for them, regardless of whether they are in-line with what the article is “about” or not. If it’s in your column, then it’s fair game for criticism. It’s fine if you mentioned something as an aside and didn’t go into depth on it - that’s understood. However, when you make blanket statements, like “competitors have caught up”, “how they have 30% (sic) marketshare is beyond me”…you are asking for responses.

WHICH competitors have caught up, and how?

Are there any competitors that are ahead in design, usability, and quality?

Have you EVER used an iPod?

If you are still perplexed as to why the iPod has over 75% marketshare, why don’t you do some research? You will find that the interface, in no small part due to the phenomenal click-wheel that no other competitor has, is out of this world and blows the competition away. The click wheel is so intuitive and so effective that it makes the experience all that much better. THIS is where no competitor matches up, in my opinion.

Integration with the software, as previously mentioned, is also a huge factor.

And regarding your childish and asinine suggestion that just because the iPod has the largest marketshare and is the best mp3 player, then Windows must be as well. Try out the products yourself, and compare them. Don’t resort to lazy, uninspired statements that I can only think were written to elicit comments from the likes of me.

Look up some reviews on the internet - nothing holds a candle to the iPod. Do the same for Windoze vs. OS X - you’ll find the same thing on that front. If you don’t believe the reviews, you should attempt to get OS X on your work computer (I can’t believe USA Today would force you to work on OS 9 - that’s low), and see how they differ yourself.

The iPod came onto the market when there was no clear-cut leader; no products particularly stood out, but there were many of them, and BECAUSE the iPod was the best on most fronts, it came out ahead. Still, nobody has caught up (you say they have, but PLEASE back that up - there is absolutely no credibility to your argument). What’s the drawback to the iPod - cost? Not anymore after the nano. In contrast, here is a brief list of the drawbacks that the competition face - cost, aesthetics, user experience, software integration, compatibility (yes - “Plays for Sure” is nonsense when it doesn’t work with 75% of the players on the market!), reliability, performance, accessories.

Andrew says:

Dmitry — Did you even READ my column? Obviously not, so why comment on something you didn’t bother to understand?

You wrote, amazingly, “If you are still perplexed as to why the iPod has over 75% marketshare…”

If you read my column, you’d know that I’m NOT perplexed — a large part of the column was devoted to PRAISING the iPod.

Do me a favor: If you can’t read or can’t understand my stuff, don’t bother writing about it.

Oh, and spare me the stuff about how wonderful OSX is. According to the people posting here, the iPod’s market share is evidence of its superiority. I assume that same logic must apply to Windows and its 95+ percent share, right?

Dmitry says:

Andrew - three things.

1) Instead of trying to attack me, could you reply to my points and try to keep it civilized?

2) The statement “And yet Apple has that huge market share” following your comment that the Zen/Sony equivalents do the same thing suggests that the iPod has no real reason to be #1. You also mention later on that competition has “caught up” - please tell me how. I KNOW that your article was not at all saying that the iPod was bad, but it seemed pretty clear to me that you think other players are at the same level now, which is what I (and most others) dispute.

3) My post seems to have been cut off - is there a character limit?

_____

Windows was a cheap rip-off of the Macintosh GUI, and that weasel Gates partnered with big blue monster and captured the market with an OS that Apple had designed earlier and better. Once Windows got integrated into everyday life, it became much harder to switch, because as we all know, there were many compatibility issues with pre-OS X. Now however, more and more people are looking at switching, while many are still oblivious to OS X. The iPod is serving as a vehicle for switchers - seriously, look at the numbers: Mac sales are growing at three times the industry standard. If, as you seem to believe, the iPod is an everyday run of the mill mp3 player that does not stand out from the competition at all, WHY are people getting interested in Apple computers after ONLY using their iPods? I myself know 5 such people at my university who have made the switch just based on the iPod, and another 10 who have after using my PowerBook. There is a reason for this Andrew, and it goes beyond marketshare.

It’s about design, ease of use, reliability, service, function, and features (expose is a big one), immunity to viruses and spyware (please, Windows is better because of this? - yes, you didn’t say that, you were replying that if the iPod is better AND it has larger marketshare, then Windows is better BECAUSE it has a greater marketshare - that is a horrible, horrible argument).

Anyway, I have much more to say, but I have a feeling you haven’t made it down this far. If you have, a thoughtful, rational reply would be much appreciated. I hope that despite some of the statements you have made, they weren’t in jest, and you genuinely don’t “get it” why the iPod is so in vogue, and why so many people who use Macs are zealots, and this will compel you to give it some more thought.

Jack A says:

This is so bogus. Kantor is just deleting comments that score points against him.

My lack of respect grows.

Luke Dyer says:

I think the problem everyone has with your “journalism” is that you have to include comments like “cult of blind little lemmings.” Poor show my friend.

Jack A says:

I would advise anyone who posts a comment to save a copy to repost again just in case Kantor practices his one sided censorship again. I, unfortunately, did not keep a copy of what I posted before. I guess because I did not expect anyone to stoop so low as to delete posts which were not profane but DID point out less than desirable behavior on Kantor’s part.

I will try and reproduce my previous post here:

“Well, well, well, back to your old tricks of baiting Mac Users by posting articles that, although they contain many reasonable and true statements, also contain purposefully snide, inaccurate, or unsupported comments designed to elicit the reaction you seem to desire.

And please spare us the doe-eyed protestations of ignorance that your comments would result in the reactions you have seen. You have played this exact same game too many times before.”

That is not word for word but contains the essential points of the post that Kantor deleted. He is a troll, pure and simple, who gets some sort of perverse pleasure out baiting Mac Users. He is not innocent and it is all premeditated and when I called him on it, he deleted the post. The phrase “Yellow Journalism” comes to mind.

Example 1: http://www.kantor.com/usatoday/mac_users_froth.shtml
Example 2: http://www.kantor.com/usatoday/the_virginia_tech_supercomputer.shtml
Example 3: http://www.kantor.com/usatoday/portable_storage_and_yeah_the_ipod.shtml

Andrew says:

Another good way to avoid having your posts removed is to not call me names and generally act like a child. The “censorship” is not one-sided; I also remove any posts of mine that are simply ad hominem attacks.

Let’s keep in mind, folks:

I praised the iPod left, right, and center — I used it as an example of great quality. So telling me about all your friends who love their iPods is kinda a waste of time.

The impression I get is that you didn’t read the column, and have somehow gotten it into your head that I wrote a bad review of the iPod. I didn’t.

If your only response to my suggestion that — horrors! — other music-player makers are starting to turn out good products is to scream and yell and stomp your virtual feet, why not take it elsewhere?

(Has any of you used the newest Sony Network Walkman? Didn’t think so. And I’ve used an iPod, thanks — that’s why I was able to say how great it was.)

gnomic says:

I’ve used the Sony Network Walkman, Sony’s poor software idiotic attempt at digital rights management was so annoying that I gave it to goodwill.

Bantar says:

Mr, Kantor,

May I suggest that in the future it may be wise just to ignore the iPod and anything Mac related at all. Most Microsoft users could be compared to extreme Right Wing Facists - they are fantic and do not think rationally and only want to spew hate…

Tim says:

I didn’t know the term “Yellow Journalism” and so I looked it up. It seems to apply in this case.

From http://alt.tnt.tv/movies/tntoriginals/roughriders/jour.home.html ;

“The Sensational Beginnings of Yellow Journalism
In 1898, newspapers provided the major source of news in America. At this time, it was common practice for a newspaper to report the editor’s interpretation of the news rather than objective journalism. If the information reported was inaccurate or biased, the American public had little means for verification. With this sort of influence, the newspapers wielded much political power. In order to increase circulation, the publishers of these papers often exploited their position by sponsoring a flamboyant and irresponsible approach to news reporting that became known as “yellow journalism.”

Andrew says:

Tim, you might want to look up the term “column” while you’re educating yourself. [roll of eyes]

Daddy says:

“Windows and its 95+ percent share, right?”

You see this is exactly what we’re talking about. Winblows XPEE has something like 35-40% market-share–many,many people are still using 95 and 2000. Windows Xp is the biggest failure of an OS in tech history. If you think CURRENT!!! Windows OS has 95% share you’re dreaming– MS hasn’t sold anything close to what they did when they released 95.

Don’t you hear the news about all these young PC users begging for OS X on X86–and they’re getting it, this coming year!!! hacking the shit out of it so they can use it on unsupported systems rather than use the bloated POShit that is XP. The foundation isn’t there for Windows anymore my friend. This same time next year I’ll be back and we’ll talk on this issue again. Oh and maybe my spelling and grammar will have improved by then and maybe your “news reporting” would have as well. Bye!

Tim says:

Well, Mr. Kantor this is sure turning into an educational experience for me and I hope it is for you too. I looked up Column like you suggested and found this:

—
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_column

“A columnist is a journalist who produces a specific form of writing for publication called a “column”. Columns appear in newspapers, magazines and the Internet. Some Internet columns are called blogs or Weblogs.
What differentiates a column from other forms of journalism is that it meets each of the following criteria:
• It is a regular feature in a publication
• It is personality-driven by the author
• It contains an opinion or point of view”

—-
That made me what to look up what it means to be a Journalist because it seems to me that just because something is a column doesn’t give you free reign to be inaccurate (or at least a columnist with journalistic integrity would not)and I found this:

—
http://www.journalism.org/resources/guidelines/principles/purpose.asp

“A Statement of Shared Purpose
After extended examination by journalists themselves of the character of journalism at the end of the twentieth century, we offer this common understanding of what defines our work.
• The central purpose of journalism is to provide citizens with accurate and reliable information they need to function in a free society.
This encompasses myriad roles–helping define community, creating common language and common knowledge, identifying a community’s goals, heros and villains, and pushing people beyond complacency. This purpose also involves other requirements, such as being entertaining, serving as watchdog and offering voice to the voiceless.
Over time journalists have developed nine core principles to meet the task. They comprise what might be described as the theory of journalism:

1. Journalism’s first obligation is to the truth
2. Its first loyalty is to citizens.
3. Its essence is a discipline of verification.
4. Its practitioners must maintain an independence from those they cover
5. It must serve as an independent monitor of power.
6. It must provide a forum for public criticism and compromise.
7. It must strive to make the significant interesting and relevant.
8. It must keep the news comprehensive and proportional.
9. Its practitioners must be allowed to exercise their personal conscience.”
—-

It seems to me that you are skirting the edge on items 1 and 3 in your original article since several of your statements provided no examples to back them up and so you are perhaps not following the “discipline of verification” very well. Also I think that you might be falling short on item 6 in this forum since it seems from things written by other posters that you are deleting comments that you don’t like even when they do not contain profanity.

Andrew says:

Daddy: Did I *say* Windows XP? No. I said Windows. And 95 percent is pretty accurate. (Maybe it’s 94, maybe it’s 96.)

‘All those PC users begging for OSX’? Care to support that?

Andrew says:

Folks, I’m gonna be away for a few days and not checking this as often. So if I don’t reply, don’t assume it’s “crickets” — it’s just me not being around.

We can pick this up then, or we can realize that we’re spinning in circles and move up. Up to you.

Jack A says:

Just for your information Andrew, MacDailyNews has been know to criticize Apple severely when they think they are not doing the best thing for Mac Users. A recent example would be when they complained bitterly about Apple not including Firewire cables with regular iPods and not having firewire capability in the nano.

Apple is not perfect, they are just better than anything else out there and that is why we love their products. But if Mac Users didn’t complain about things that they see need improvement, Apple would not have as clear of a direction and would not be as motivated to produce even better products in the future. Other things that MacDailyNews or “rabid zealot Macfans” in general have complained about in the recent past: Lack of a Headless iMac to go head to head with similar windoze offerings - Apple’s response: The Mac mini; Lack of a three button mouse offering from Apple - Apples response: The Mighty Mouse, People are not exposed to Apple products enough and many of the computer stores that do carry Macs do not have knowledgeable salespeople to explain them - Apple’s response: Apple specialists in key computer stores and then the establishment and expansion of Apple Stores.

Current complaints about what Apple is doing by MacDailyNews and what you term “cultish lemming-like Mac Fans” include not enough advertisements showing the benefits of OS X and too high of a price and inadequate storage space for dot Mac accounts. It remains to be seen if Apple will step up to the plate and fix these but their track record at addressing issues often complained about by the Mac Community has been good so far.

So you are just dead wrong when you say that we just accept and love anything that Apple does or produces. The only reason you are getting taken to task for some of your statements in your columns is because they are WRONG or at the very least totally unsubstantiated with no back up information provided whatsoever. So please get a clue and quit baiting. It does not reflect well upon your character.

desiredusername says:

If you iPod lovers can explain to me why my iPod takes just about 4-5 minutes to recognize itself on my 2.4 ghz 512MB RAM PC, I would like to know? Also, the access speed on my 60GB iPod photo is horrendous. If you go to fast, by which I mean two quick presses of one of the over buttons, it will freeze up and crash. It’s my first Apple product, and frankly - I’m not that impressed. Other than that, it is a sexy beast and offers me more storage than I can get anywhere else. But it isn’t the end all be all people. By the way, attacking a guy because he wrote a few bad things about Apple when most of his article was positive, shows that you have zero, and I mean ZERO class. There are better causes to get your panties in a ruffle about than a piece of metal and plastic. Why don’t you peel yourself from your computer screens and go do something useful.

desiredusername says:

Also

Kantor, you say: ”This is why so many of the tech writers I’ve talked with say they just don’t want to write about the Mac. Who needs a cult banging on your Inbox”

As you know, part of the SPJ Code of Ethics is to not withold information.

If the product isn’t up to par, you have a duty to tell the MDN readers and Apple lovers aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall about it! :-). Keep on keepin’ on.

Workisl says:

Kantor, you’ve been dugg.

http://www.digg.com/apple/USA_Today_writer_calls_Apple_users_Blind_Lemmings_

Visez says:

I found this page while randomly surfing on the internet… and I’m having a laugh… I really wouldn’t like to be in your shoes, Mr. Kantor - I know how frustrating it could be when people refuse to get the point, despite of all logical arguments, begging and apologies.
A crowd is a wild animal… Can’t tame them all. Good luck!

Andy H. says:

Why can USA Today’s Jefferson Graham do an unbiased iPod nano piece, but Kantor can’t?

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/6936/

USA Today: More Graham, hold the Kantor please.

Valerie says:

Hey Andrew - Bottom line is that whether or not they’re complaining or “dissing” you, they ARE planting their silly eyeballs on this website. And quite frankly, I enjoy the heck out of it! Keep up the good work.

Frank Johnson says:

Good service