More missing logic

Published 4/14/06

This is funny. Cyrus Farivar of MacUser wrote a piece in which he purported to “take down” my argument about Boot Camp.

Sadly, he didn’t do that — in fact, he agreed with me for the most part. Yet he crows sarcastically at the end of the piece, “Some know-it-all, this Kantor, no?”

Here’s a perfect example of his “arguments.”

I wrote: The Macs that can currently run Boot Camp are the Mac Mini, the iMac, and the MacBook Pro notebook. Price-wise, they can’t compete with PCs.

He replied: Duh, we’ve known this for years. But you can’t easily run MacOS onto a generic PC — so again, if you wanted to buy the cheapest computer, you’d get a PC. Or a Linux box.

In other words, he’s agreeing with me.

Oh, here’s another one:

I wrote: By the way, I certainly hope you haven’t bought into the argument “graphics are better on the Mac.” Yeah, in 1992. Go to a bookstore and grab a book on using Photoshop; you’ll see that the Mac and Windows versions are identical. In fact, Photoshop isn’t yet optimized to take advantage of the Mac’s Intel processors.

He replied: Um, dude? Go to any photography/design studio. Go check out the design department of all major magazines and newspapers. I’d bet that they use Macs. You say there’s no difference? Ask them why there is.

That’s funny for a couple of reasons. First, he completely ignores my point — that the Mac and Windows versions of Photoshop are virtually identical. (Some keystrokes are different.) Then he proceeds to say that popularity should tell me something.

Apple fans have used that same argument about the iPod: It’s so incredibly popular it must be the best.

Yet they just hate it when you point out that, following their own logic, Windows (with 95+ percent of the desktop market) must be that much better than the Mac.

Hmm.

Combine this with Mac Daily News simply making stuff up (claiming I wrote things that I didn’t), and you begin to see a pattern in terms of their arguments’ validity.

As of 4/16, comments are closed. Make ‘em over in the Boot Camp entry.

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The Fray

14 responses

youcallyourselfajournalist says:

Have you ever considered that people DON”T LIKE WINDOWS? Are you that dense? We use Macs and OS X because we like it and don’t have to deal with annoying or butt ugliness of Windows XP(and no doubt Vista)

Maybe you missed the recent ratings where microsoft is near the bottom of the list on consumer trust ratings?

Face it, Windows is broken and garbage, people only use it because they’re sheep. Do you want to be one of the sheep or think outside your world of Microsoft love.

April 14th, 2006 at 7:57 PM

James Rodgers says:

Personally I don’t own a Mac, I never have done. I’ve used one, I’m sure you have too, but I’ve never adopted. Currently I’ve got three PCs at home, there all running windows.
However even I can tell that your arguments here mrkantor are baloney! There is only one single bit you get wrong: You assume that usage of something other than the predominant system is foolish - well in the early 1940s most of europe was under the Facist system. Ok, that is a silly argument. But yours is just as silly.
You are correct most Mac users can’t get access to everything on their platform, most things however are available on the Win platform. But you are mistaken to then think most Mac users can’t use a pc and need to be deprogrammed. They CAN use a PC, and they DO use them, for the reason you just argued, be case not everything is available on a Mac.
Now just because an automatic car is available, I don’t think it is silly to also know how to drive a manual. So I equally don’t see why you seem to think knowning how to use other systems is foolish?
And if you want to make comparisons between two systems, I certainly think I would (at least be prepared to listen to) the people who regularly are using two systems about the differences.
And if you don’t believe me about using windows, check your sever logs - I’m even running IE.

April 14th, 2006 at 8:23 PM

haha says:

your an idiot douche. inflammatory? yes! necessary? yes! people as dumb as you should be sent to primary school, where you can learn under the no child left behind program brought to you by your savior President Bush.. p.s. a lot of liberals use macs - people in affluent gay areas like San Francisco, so given the percentage of mac users, and the percentage of voters for President Bush… the majority of PC users are republicans and I say shame on you. You are a racist ignoramus who hates the environment and who wishes he could have more sex with his sister… shame on you. Dumb argument? Yep - and I did it just for fun. Doesn’t reflect well on me? I could care less.

April 14th, 2006 at 9:24 PM

callmeDave says:

It is sad that someone with your shallow depth of perspective and insight is a tech columnist for such a large media group (then again, you do write for USA Today). Your article about boot camp os so off base, it’s sad.

Did you ever think Apple perhaps just released boot camp to assist people in running Windows, which Intel Macs can already do? This is a concept called ‘Adding value (giyf).’ - it’t not some big strategic move - Apple has just gien up trying to prevent folks from running Windows on a Mac (which people were prior to boot camp anyway), probably becasue they realize it Makes a Mac more valuable! Last week, a Mac could only (officially) run Mac OS. Now it can run Windows too - why not make it a more marketable product? Maybe they’ll grab a few market share percentage points while they’re at it.

theis just making it official with Boot Camp, and a little easier.

Did you

April 14th, 2006 at 9:25 PM

again says:

i am confused. if popularity is not an argument, then why should we bow down to the other 97% of computer users?

April 14th, 2006 at 9:44 PM

Alan Shearer says:

I’m not commenting on each point in the now infamous (to some) USA Today article. But, I pose a question. The central theme of the article seems to be quote” So in this week’s column about Apple’s Boot Camp software, which lets some Mac run Windows, I didn’t pull my punches. I called it as I saw it: That Boot Camp was more likely to drive people to Windows than to the Mac.”

I can’t see people running out to buy a Mac so they can run windows. Agreed. That generally wouldn’t make sense, unless you’re so compelled by the design attributes or also want to experience the Mac OS. But, by the same token, why would anybody who is currently using Macs, switch to Windows, just because they can now run it on their Mac? It makes no sense. I use Macs at home, Windows at work. I have zero compatibility issues, not to say that there aren’t people who do. I can’t think of a single reason why I would suddenly switch to Windows after experiencing it running on a Mac? Your statement, out of technical necessity implies that the people being “driven” would currently have a Mac capable of running Boot Camp and thus Windows. That would be only those people current enough with their Mac hardware to have an intel Mac at present. I have no idea what is coming, or why Apple chose to do this. But, I do know that statements like the one you made in this particular article are far too broad and unsubstantiated to be of any use.

April 14th, 2006 at 9:54 PM

Chris says:

Why are you so ANGRY?! I see nothing but venom and anger on your site. Really quite sad. I’m leaving this horrible vibe behind.

April 14th, 2006 at 10:27 PM

Island in the Net says:

“The iMac is about $1600 (with 512 MB RAM, a 160-GB hard drive, and Windows). The MacBook Pro, with an 80-GB hard drive, is about $2000 with Windows. (All these prices come from the Apple Store. I mention the hard drive sizes in particular because you’d need the space to load two operating systems and two sets of software.)

In contrast, a 3 GHz Gateway DX210 PC with 1 GB of RAM, a 160 GB hard drive, and the same monitor I suggested for the Mac Mini — that’ll be only $900.”

The DX210 is no dual core so I poked around Gateway’s web site looking for a dual core CPU with similar specs to the iMac. The 300 came close but lacked a real operating system (Windows Media Center is not an OS I would have my worst enemy use). So that left the FX510 series. The price on these starts at about $1400 with a monitor. The prices on the similar equipped iMac is $1299.

In case you think I am a mac bigot I have 3 windows machines at home, one linux, and one mac. At work I use Linux, Windows and Solaris. In my opinion, your opinion is uninformed.

OS X does not have near the number of security issues as Windows. As an information security professional ( which you are not) I can tell you that most security professional think Windows is a joke.

The average computer user does not have the technical ability to build a dual boot mac with Boot Camp. This is strictly for the geek crowd. And the geek crowd is not going to go buy a mac so they can run Windows and even if they did who cares. Apple will still get there money. The technically savvy mac user is not going to swith to Windows. They have already tried Windows and thinks it stinks.

April 14th, 2006 at 10:43 PM

Beerzie says:

Windows is the USA Today of Operating Systems; cheap, dumbed down, infrequently substantive, and rarely modernized. If you want a McComputer, keep your Windows box. It fills your belly, which is all you may need. If you want a tasty meal…try Mac.

April 14th, 2006 at 10:50 PM

Jamie says:

I want to say first that I’ve used Windows PCs and Macs for years in work and play. I feel there are valid reasons to buy PCs and valid reasons to buy Macs. Your byline says “former editor for PC Magazine and Internet World”. I’d have thought in your tenure you might have had the opportunity to sit down in front of a Mac running OSX. In a short while you’d discover the reason Mac users would never give up their OS: it is elegant, intuitive and rock solid.

I’ve bought 3 for my older (70’s and 80’s) relatives who’ve never touched computers because when I leave their house I get about 3 tech support calls a year from them. Could you say that about the ease of use or security of any Windows system since inseption?

Keep in mind that most computer users are not techies who dream at night of souped up graphic cards and super high band width. They are people who just want to get their email, cruise the net, look at pics and listen to music (and superior software to do all these activities is bundled free with every Mac). Add Office (available on the Mac, by the way) and you’re talking about 90% of all users out there.

Adding Windows cababilities just gave a nice way to give fence leaners a reason to come over and check it out. You mention that Boot Camp is BETA software and then report users having problems with the install. I thought that was what BETA was all about? I’d also suspect that the upcoming version of OSX will offer an even more elegant way to navigate to Windows apps (perhaps, even in the future, without Windows? Now there’s a real solution!).
And in light of Microsoft’s trouble in developing Vista, perhaps there might be some in the Window’s camp just tired of waiting for a modern operating system?

April 15th, 2006 at 2:52 AM

Jamie says:

I want to say first that I’ve used Windows PCs and Macs for years in work and play. I feel there are valid reasons to buy PCs and valid reasons to buy Macs. Your byline says “former editor for PC Magazine and Internet World”. I’d have thought in your tenure you might have had the opportunity to sit down in front of a Mac running OSX. In a short while you’d discover the reason Mac users would never give up their OS: it is elegant, intuitive and rock solid.

I’ve bought 3 for my older (70’s and 80’s) relatives who’ve never touched computers because when I leave their house I get about 3 tech support calls a year from them. Could you say that about the ease of use or security of any Windows system since inseption?

Keep in mind that most computer users are not techies who dream at night of souped up graphic cards and super high band width. They are people who just want to get their email, cruise the net, look at pics and listen to music (and superior software to do all these activities is bundled free with every Mac). Add Office (available on the Mac, by the way) and you’re talking about 90% of all users out there.

Adding Windows cababilities just gave a nice way to give fence leaners a reason to come over and check it out. You mention that Boot Camp is BETA software and then report users having problems with the install. I thought that was what BETA was all about? I’d also suspect that the upcoming version of OSX will offer an even more elegant way to navigate to Windows apps (perhaps, even in the future, without Windows? Now there’s a real solution!).
And in light of Microsoft’s trouble in developing Vista, perhaps there might be some in the Window’s camp just tired of waiting for a modern operating system?

April 15th, 2006 at 2:53 AM

Jamie P says:

I want to say first that I’ve used Windows PCs and Macs for years in work and play. I feel there are valid reasons to buy PCs and valid reasons to buy Macs. Your byline says “former editor for PC Magazine and Internet World”. I’d have thought in your tenure you might have had the opportunity to sit down in front of a Mac running OSX. In a short while you’d discover the reason Mac users would never give up their OS: it is elegant, intuitive and rock solid.

I’ve bought 3 for my older (70’s and 80’s) relatives who’ve never touched computers because when I leave their house I get about 3 tech support calls a year from them. Could you say that about the ease of use or security of any Windows system since inseption?

Keep in mind that most computer users are not techies who dream at night of souped up graphic cards and super high band width. They are people who just want to get their email, cruise the net, look at pics and listen to music (and superior software to do all these activities is bundled free with every Mac). Add Office (available on the Mac, by the way) and you’re talking about 90% of all users out there.

Adding Windows cababilities just gave a nice way to give fence leaners a reason to come over and check it out. You mention that Boot Camp is BETA software and then report users having problems with the install. I thought that was what BETA was all about? I’d also suspect that the upcoming version of OSX will offer an even more elegant way to navigate to Windows apps (perhaps, even in the future, without Windows? Now there’s a real solution!).
And in light of Microsoft’s trouble in developing Vista, perhaps there might be some in the Window’s camp just tired of waiting for a modern operating system?

April 15th, 2006 at 2:56 AM

Warren Huxley says:

I have actually seen people rush out and buy a MacBook Pro just so they could run Boot Camp and Windows. I know because im in the store that sold it. the client had ordered an Thinkpad (special order) then cancelled the order and ordeed the macbook pro. then 3 days later bring it back telling us it was a bad idea. they wanted to go back to the thinkpad they originally ordered.

A few details finally caught up to them. they were spending $900 more then they originally planned to. They we going to run a beta solution as a business tool. And the mac freak in office was almost shot for coming up with the idea.

The debate about boot camp fall into the same irrational category as the rest of the Mac vrs Windows debate. “This is the next big thing that will change eveything” Please. Macs are a niche product and it always will be. As retailer i can assure you. As long as Macs are more expensive to buy than a PC, then they will stay a niche market. Customers are cheap, and Macs arent. Thats the real bottom line.

April 15th, 2006 at 3:34 AM

John says:

Why are there so MANY viruses for windows?

There are about 60000 viruses known for Windows?
What ever happen to longhorn, vista, or what ever they are calling it these days?

April 15th, 2006 at 3:53 AM


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