Jeff St Real says:

Yipe!

greyrat says:

…and he’ll still get votes. Why? Why WHY WHY?!?!?

Bob Francis says:

Well,hell, Bush got votes twice!

Anonymous says:

http://www.ronpaul2008.com

Randy says:

Let’s face it - the vast majority of Americans are merely livestock and mostly mindless. That’s the only way these privacy- and rights-hating politicians keep in office at this point.

gnomic says:

Which is why he’s leading. As long as the GOP continues to scare people, they ar always willing to trade thier freedom for the illusion of security and gain neither.

gnomic says:

BTW, MSNBC has a nice matrix showing candidate’s positions at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21116732

Ron Paul sounds good, but (sadly) like many libertainians, when you dig into his positions, he comes off sounding like just another nutcase. Abolish nearly everything isn’t a viable plan.

gnomic says:

BTW, I just love clicking on the riech-wing phuknut ads for newsmax, knowing that you are making a few cents each time.

MrLumberjack says:

Thanks for leaving out the words right before your carefully “plucked” quote.

I wonder how many of your readers actually read the link you posted? From the “amen brother” type of comments I’m looking at, I’d venture to say “Not Many”!

———————————————-
“What we don’t see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority… (and so on)”
———————————————-

“Out of Context” ring a bell in your noggin?!

lionemom says:

Mr Lumberjack - I whole-heartedly DISagree with you. I do not think the comment was taken out of context, nor do the statements preceding or following it change what he was saying, IMO.

What Giuliani was saying is that in his version of freedom, we all have freedom…to a point. We all must hand over some of our freedom to those in authority.

What is not said is HOW MUCH he thinks should be handed over and WHAT PARTS of our freedoms he believes should be handed over. But at it’s base, he is stating that he believes freedom is good - to a point.

I don’t believe that to be true. I do NOT believe in ANARCHY, so don’t try to pin on me that I believe in murder and lawlessness, etc. I believe in reasonable laws that govern fairly. But I DO NOT believe that I should have to get used to the idea of reducing my freedoms in the interest of national security, or airport security, or international traveling. There are other, better ways to protect people without becoming fear-mongers. That’s the EASY way and a way that unfortunately has developed into something many people and corporations can profit from. It’s sad really.

Richard says:

There are at least four things we must remember: Giuliani has a record of stomping on people’s rights as mayor of New York. New York was the primary victim of the Sept. 11 attacks, so he has to use security theater to remain the hero. He keeps moving right as he pursues the Republican nomination for president. Americans want someone at the throttle who will protect them from the boogey man.

Donald Kerr, No. 2 man in the intelligence community, has as much as said that our right to privacy is now being meted out at the discretion of those agencies that are fighting the “war on terror.” Unfortunately he’s right. And unfortunately — as we have seen in the past year — you can’t count on the Democrats to restore our rights. With no one wanting to take the blame for the next terrorist attack, freedom-loving citizens will remain major casualty of the “war on terror.”

What has become “out of context” is the U.S. Constitution.

lionemom says:

Richard, excellently worded!!

MrLumberjack says:

lionemom quotes
“What Giuliani was saying is that in his version of freedom, we all have freedom…”

—————————————–

I agree with you wholeheartedly! :-)

greyrat says:

Thanks for leaving out the words after your carefully “plucked” quote.

“Out of Context” ring a bell in your noggin?!

Or are you a dumbass as well as a hypocrite?

MrLumberjack says:

As for Richard’s kinda quoting Donald Kerr

Richard (quote)
“Donald Kerr, No. 2 man in the intelligence community, has as much as said that our right to privacy is now being meted out at the discretion of those agencies that are fighting the “war on terror.”

The key words “HAS AS MUCH AS SAID” is simply another way of saying “IF I WERE TO PUT WORDS IN HIS MOUTH HE WOULD HAVE SAID…(insert whatever the author thinks).”

I’ve actually found a quote from Donald Kerr which I find to be more in line with his thinking since he thought it and then proceeded to say it.

On October 23, 2007, Kerr gave a speech at the “GEOINT” conference Donald Kerr says

Quote
“[W]e really need to realize what a loaded word security really is. When I’m at work, and throughout my day, security is safety, as a barrier against physical or emotional harm. When I go home at night, security is privacy, as an expectation of freedom from unnecessary burdens.”

a later on during that speech he says…

“Safety and privacy – it’s common thinking that, in order to have more safety, you get less privacy. I don’t agree with that. I work from the assumption that you need to have both. When we try to make it an either/or proposition, we’re bound to fail.”

“IF I WERE TO PUT WORDS INTO HIS MOUTH” it would be that he’s actually in favor of a balance between safety and privacy.

What amazes me Richard is that I complain about “Out of Context” and you fight back with putting words in someone else’s mouth?!

Richard says:

Lumberjack,
Please provide us with a link to the whole speech. Other commitments this weekend preclude me from going quote mining/cherry picking.

MrLumberjack says:

http://www.dni.gov/speeches/20071023_speech.pdf