Boy Scouts: Gays cannot believe in God

Published 12/6/07

The City of Philadelphia finally kicked out the Boy Scouts from city-owned property. Good.

The reason is simple: The Scouts believe in discrimination, and it’s against the law for a discriminatory organization to receive funds from the city. As the Scouts had been leasing the land basically rent-free, that’s considered accepting money. Ergo, they had to pay rent ($200K per year) or get out.

Let’s look at some of the logic of the Scouts as shown in the New York Times story.

In trying to reach a compromise with the city, the Scouts offered to agree to a  policy statement that said, in part, "prejudice, intolerance and unlawful discrimination in any form are unacceptable."

One: They would agree to the statement, but they wouldn’t change anything. That’s called "lip service"; it and $2.00 will get you on the subway.

Two: By agreeing to that statement, the Scouts would be lying. They are clearly and unequivocally intolerant and prejudiced when it comes to gay, as is their right. So they’re saying such behavior is unacceptable, but doing it anyway. What lesson does that teach? If you hate gays, say so and be done with it. Don’t talk out of both sides of your mouth.

Then there are these bits of flotsam from Gregg Shields, the Scouts’ national spokesman:

“Since we were founded, we believe that open homosexuality would be inconsistent with the values that we want to communicate with our leaders."

"A belief in God is also mentioned in the Scout oath. We believe that those values are important."

One: What values would being gay be "inconsistent" with? The Scout "law" says its members must be "trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, [and] reverent." Where does it dictate who you can love?

And the Scout Oath reads

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Again, how is who you’re attracted to inconsistent with anything there? Answer: It isn’t. Scout leadership is homophobic, so it’s reading meaning into these things where there is none. They might just as logically say "It would be inconsistent with Scouting principles for members to date brunettes."

Or, perhaps, "It would be inconsistent with Scouting principles for members to date outside their race."

Two: What Gregg Shields is saying — in the nicest possible way — is "God hates fags." He is saying that Scouts must believe in God, and that you can’t be gay and believe in God.

Think about that: It is the clear an unambiguous position of the Boy Scouts of America that gays cannot believe in God.

So tell me, why would I want my son to be part of an organization that is not only intolerant and prejudiced, but also willing to lie about it (for the sake of money), and that believes that whom a person loves somehow affects his ability to worship?

Answer: I wouldn’t.

Good for Philly. Kick the bums out.

Add to del.icio.us Digg it! Add to Technorati Add to Furl Add to reddit Stumble it!

The Fray


Steve says:

As an Eagle Scout, this really pisses me off that the BSA felt compelled to even take a stance. I wonder if the Christianist Far Right somehow got into their upper-ranks. Only in the political atmosphere of the mid-2000’s would this have even been thinkable after the 70’s.

I’ve said before that if it’s PR they’re worried about after all the molestations stuff that came up, all they had to do was show that they were doing something about it, that their organization was so vast that some crazies are hard to avoid, and that their overall boon for the nation faaar outweighed the bad press.

All of which are true.

But instead of that, they make the big media statements about gays? What? Today would they kick out the Muslim kid that was in my patrol? Or would they have kicked out the Token Atheist Kid (there was always one)?

Scouts and God are both way bigger than that kind of petty stereotyping.

December 6th, 2007 at 3:57 PM

Gnomic says:

I returned my box of badges to the scouts a long time ago for this stupidity and my son won’t be joining unless they change thier position. When I was a member of Troop 744, they took every boy in and taught us to treat evyone as equals and to jusdge people by thier deeds. Today they’d kick the gay kids out as well as they gay leaders (some of which were the best leaders).

This is what happens when you let narrow-minded bigots run the country… or social organizations.

December 6th, 2007 at 4:25 PM

Andrew says:

“Scouts and God are both way bigger than that kind of petty stereotyping.”

And there, folks, is your quote of the day.

December 6th, 2007 at 4:43 PM

Jonathan says:

This sent me on a little googling trek, and turned up this:
http://bsatroop666.org/uploads/File/50th-anniversary.pdf

There I am, in the Hawk Patrol. About seven years later I almost finished my Eagle rank (I finished all the merit badges and every other bit except for a 1/2-done conservation project, which I ditched to start college early at 17). Most of those years were under the leadership of [name redacted at poster's request --ak], who was gay. Not open or flaunting gay, but just a good outdoorsman who happened to shop on the other side of the aisle in his private life. It was a very private and conservative life, with one partner for the duration, whom we never met. He was by far the best prepared, most knowledgeable, most devoted, best teacher, most inspirational, and interested leader. And they booted him out in the early 90’s.

I’ll have nothing to do with those bigots anymore, and I won’t let my two sons near the BSA. They’re shameful.

Jon

December 6th, 2007 at 6:27 PM

Richard says:

Why hasn’t anyone mentioned the relentless takeover of the Boy Scouts by the Mormons?

The Mormons, Steve, are way bigger than the Scouts or God.

December 6th, 2007 at 8:41 PM

greyrat says:

OK, sorry, but this is all so stupid that I have to go for the joke here.

“On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
[I never liked the line above]
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.”

They’re taking the last three words literally. Damn Fundament-alists…

December 7th, 2007 at 9:57 AM

Gnomic says:

Greyrat, If that was true, they’d be dropping dead from sleep depravation, assuming that they aren’t brain dead… oh.

December 7th, 2007 at 12:20 PM

Steve says:

Andrew: I may as well have a grammatically-correct quote of the day, then.

“Scouts and God are both much bigger than that kind of petty stereotyping.”

I let my anger get in the way of my inner high school English teacher. I’ll also admit that it’s partly stolen from a Bono quote:

“Fundamentalists, they recreate God in their own image … Petty, small, tiny.”

December 8th, 2007 at 10:56 PM

Mike says:

The Scouts seem to be afraid of seeming to approve of behavior God disapproves of. Are they also obeso-phobic? Should Philly make that politically incorrect as well? Are some sins more important than others? Are some vices so unimportant we should mandate their acceptance?

Who does God think He is, telling us what’s good and what’s bad, anyway? Didn’t He give us freedom to choose?

December 16th, 2007 at 4:35 PM

Laurie says:

Andrew:

I didn’t know you moved to Richmond and I am a terrible person for waiting so long to contact you after you left TRT. My job was moved to the lake and life has been hectic ever since. Shoot me an e-mail and let’s talk so I can see what you’re up to.

On the BSA… it has always infuriated me that the BSA receives government funding even though they’re a private organization that is allowed to discriminate against boys based on religion and sexuality. Also, what happened to the separation between church and state? If the BSA is a private, openly religious organization, it shouldn’t be allowed to receive government funding anyway.

From the BSA National Council Web site (www.bsalegal.org):
Q. Don’t Boy Scouts discriminate against gays and atheists?

A. Boy Scouts of America is one of the most diverse youth groups in the country, serving boys of every ethnicity, religion, and economic circumstance and having programs for older teens of both sexes. That Boy Scouts also has traditional values, like requiring youth to do their “duty to God” and be “morally straight” is nothing to be ashamed of and should not be controversial. No court case has ever held that Boy Scouts discriminates unlawfully, and it is unfortunate here that anyone would characterized Boy Scouts’ constitutionally protected right to hold traditional values as “discriminatory.” That is just name-calling.

January 20th, 2008 at 8:52 PM

Weigh in

Yer name:

Yer e-mail (to be notified of responses or I can respond privately -- never ever shared):

Yer Web site (if you like):

What you have to say (Be civil, or it might be removed; comments with links
might be held for moderation, just so you know):




Site created with

and


Blog run by